Partial Birth Abortion - Is it Really Happening? - Heritage House Literature.
[link to article on partial birth abortion]
Our president is for partial-birth abortion. He sees it as a legal way to remove a problem you don't want when, actually, it is a cruel and heinous procedure to kill a baby. This barbaric and wicked procedure should be, and must be, outlawed; but it is legal. And Barak Obama wants to keep it that way.
I pray the Lord would open his heart, and eyes, to the inhuman and savage act of partial birth abortion, which kills countless babies every year. Amen.
32 comments:
You know, I have been criticized for calling it murder. My own opinion is this: Just because the state/government allows it, does not mean that it is not murder. Case and point: Hitler & holocaust.
Who said "we know there is no God?" Was that our President?
Yeah Craver, that was Barak Obama. I borrowed the quote from Steve Camp's blog.
Here tis: "President Obama, moments ago, during the National Prayer Breakfast: "We know there is no God who condones the killing of an innocent human being.""
Oh, I get it. The phrase is awkward, but he's not saying there is no God, but rather that God does not condone the killing of an innocent human being.
At this point, a good Christian vocabulary fails me. I have an urge to go on a rant, using all kinds of expletives, critiquing such a comment, since the statement comes from a person holding such a heinous position and record on the subject.
Lord, please change that man's mind. Turn his heart around from his blood-stained agenda.
"Lord, please change that man's mind. Turn his heart around from his blood-stained agenda."
I pray that with you Craver. Amen.
And it's a good thing to be angry. Christians can be angry. "Be angry", Paul says, "and sin not."
Praying this along with you, Don...
It is really a strange a mixed up cultural phenomena, isn't it.
It just makes no sense.
And then, to say that we are going to "reduce" abortions...while increasing funding abroad to support them...it seems to contradict.
However - I am praying for Obama and this administration that the Lord change their heart...
Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.
Also see...Ezra 6:22 & Ezra 7:27...and Ezra 1:1-2 that only the Lord can turn the hearts of Kings
The most high rules in the kingdom of men and He gives it to whom He pleases. Daniel 4:17
The LORD has established His throne in heaven and His kingdom rules over all. Psalm 103:19
Thanks Jen.
Amen Chris, the Lord is sovereign over all. Not even a sparrow can fall from a branch, unless it is the Father's will.
Why not kill children under one year old?
Why burden the mother or father with an extra mouth to feed? Why should young people's freedom be impinged upon?
They cannot survive on their own at that age, so they are not "viable".
I say that the 'right to choose' folks should be thrilled at the opportunity for people to get their own lives back.
Hey Don!
Can you email me your email?
thank you!!
dan@vintagefaith. com
Dan
I remember debating the issue with some pro-abortion people. Of course it came to their point on viability of life. So I told the story of a beseiged city where, after months of being cooped up within their walls, the starving people resorted to killing and eating their infants. These bleeding hearts were absolutely aghast at the idea of killing a helpless child just to ensure one's own survival. And I said, "But it's ok to kill a helpless child to ensure your own comfort and ease?"
Sin and evil warp the mind and the heart and prevent the wicked from seeing truth. Only God can remove the veil of blindness from their eyes. We can and must preach the truth without hesitation or apology. At the same time, we know that only God can soften a hard heart so I join you all in prayer that our sovereign God will do just that!
There is genuinely a huge moral conundrum regarding abortion, and religious or not people will always have strong views on this. The closest we will ever get to an understanding of implications is through the scientific method, and not starting with religious "Truth" and working backwards.
My point is you are discussing issues and promoting an agenda that has major impacts over both religious AND non-religious peoples lives. Abortion is massively life affecting to those involved & I'm sorry if it offends, but these decisions should not be based on the supposed views of an imaginary friend.
Consider Muslims imposing Sharia Law upon your way of life because in exactly the same way they believe it is the will of God. They are given authority from the Koran - Forced marriages, honour killings, punitive gang rapes, genital mutilation & a woman being worth exactly half a man & being forced to wear a Berka etc.
You can very easily imagine what it would be like to have false religion, void of evidence and rationality imposed upon you. How horrific and unjust when religious agendas like Islam gain political power.
Do you fail to see your methods are no different when you preach & attempt to impose your version of religious truth to everyone else. Especially on subjects like abortion.....
"How horrific and unjust when religious agendas like Islam gain political power."
I agree.
Christianity is more than a religion. It is Christ Himself.
Christ was born, and He died on a cruel Cross, and came forth from His tomb three days later.
He declared the Gospel for all the world to hear. I am a recipient of this good news, and I now live for Christ.
Jesus gave one command to keep; believe in Him. When we trust Christ, and turn from our own thinking and sin, then all His words, and commands become what a Christian's life is all about.
I worship the Lord Jesus; I obey Him; and I love Him.
As a citizen in America, and a Christian, I am able to speak up for the babies in my country that are being slaughtered.
When you take an innocent 7-8 month old baby and suck its brains out, because you don't want a down sydrome child, or you perhaps wanted a girl, and not a boy, or for whatever reason, I consider this barbaric, and so I speak out.
I would do the same if slavery were still legal. I would say it's wrong for human's to sell human's.
And bottom line is that I do this for the Lord. I live for the Lord Jesus Christ.
I pray that you would come to Christ, James, and you to would live for the Lord of truth, grace, and love.
@ Donsands
You agree that it would be horrific if Islam gain political power but it is ok for Christianity. I wonder what Middle Eastern Countries would say to that? You are a Hypocrite. You cant have it both ways. There is no evidence that either is more true then the other and they both relay on faith, some old sacred text & a bunch of laws that make no sense in the modern world.
"I would do the same if slavery were still legal. I would say it's wrong for human's to sell human's."
The entire civilized world now agrees that slavery is an abomination. What moral instruction do we get from the God of Abraham on this subject? Consult the Bible, and you will discover that the creator of the universe clearly expects us to keep slaves:
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness.
—Leviticus 25:44—46
The only real restraint God counsels on the subject of slavery is that we not beat our slaves so severely that we injure their eyes or their teeth (Exodus 21).
There is no place in the New Testament where Jesus objects to the practice of slavery. St. Paul even admonishes slaves to serve their masters well—and to serve their Christian masters especially well:
Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ....
---EPHESIANS 6:5
I can see Christianity with the same critical eye that you view all other religions especially Islam it seems, but you can not see this. Those text are from YOUR sacred text & it is not because people follow the "good book" that slavery got abolished.
Christian's views on slavery, abortion & creation etc are AGAINST current moral and scientific views and evidence. If the USA was turned in2 a Christian Theocracy like Iran is a Muslim one, then America would be dragged back in2 the dark ages and civil rights would be out the window. In a few years the countries would be indistinguishable.
"You are a Hypocrite."
No I'm not. James, you did not read what I said about Jesus Christ, did you.
Would you want to have an interchange about Christ, and who He is?
@ donsands
Sure, we can talk about Christ if you have nothing else to say/can't answer my question about slavery being mandated by the bible, and that Christian religious political agendas being fine while Islamic agendas are wrong not being hypercritical......
Your reply has no more meaning then someone writing to you:
"No I'm not. ......., you did not read what I said about The Prophet Mohammed, did you.
Would you want to have an interchange about The Prophet, and who He is?"
You can only talk though about what Christ means TO YOU and I don't doubt his importance in your life. However millions of Christian interpreted the Bible differently to yourself. There are Christians who don't believe in the resurrection or the virgin birth. You want to explain what Christ means to THEM as a metaphorical guide? There are also Christians who have let their baby daughter suffer in pain and die by placing faith that God will heal her rather then talking her to a doctor. Please take some time to explain what Christ means to them? There are Christians who preach sermons and abuse young boys while spending years being shielded & protected by people of your faith. What does Christ mean to protect a paedophile?
You have very strong Christian views... Really strong, that certainly comes across. That means you share a similar strength of view as the Fanatical Muslims in Iran and shouting death to America, & practicing death for apostasy. The same as Jewish Settles in the West Bank who are CERTAIN that God had promised them that land. The same as African Tribes who believe in Witch Doctors and Spirits etc.
IT DOESNT MAKE ANY OF IT TRUE BUT IT IS A BELIEVED AS TRUTH just like your faith. It is just different version of indoctrination and it is wrong to force religious agendas on topics like abortion, slavery, gay rights etc on people who don't believe it.
I have no doubt that your acceptance of Christ coincided with some very positive changes in your life. I must point out, however, that billions of other human beings, have had similar experiences, while thinking about Krishna, or Allah, or the Buddha, while making art or music etc. There is no question that it is possible for people to have profoundly transformative experiences. There is no question that it is possible for them to misinterpret these experiences, and to further delude themselves about the nature of reality.
What makes you think you are not a victim on indoctrination?
For everyone on the outside of your strong beliefs it is no less clear to see, then for you to recognise an indoctrinated person from another faith.
Slavery is not mandated in the Bible.
There were instructions given to those who had slaves, but that is different from an instruction to take for oneself a slave.
It is absolutely inconceivable that God would smile upon the harvesting of slaves that was done in Africa. John Newton learned better, and admitted that it was wickedness.
"There are Christians who don't believe in the resurrection or the virgin birth."
These are not genuine Christians. People can call themselves what they want, but they don't adhere to the most essential truths of Christ, then they are imposters.
Jesus Christ is different than all other religions.
We have His sayings recorded and the evidence of the Holy Scriptures being true is overwhelming.
Jesus said, "I am the Truth." Jesus was nailed to a Cross, and murdered.
And now here is the slam dunk: Jesus rose from the dead three days later.
He is His own testimony that He is God, He is the Way to heaven, and there is no way, and man can come to heaven by himself, by his own effort.
Christianity says heaven is for those who trust Christ, who turn from their self-centered ways, and come to Christ for forgiveness.
Peter, Jesus friend, wrote two epistles about Jesus Christ to the other believers.
Have you ever read the letters of Peter, James? I would encourage you to do so. Peter is an eyewitness of the risen Savior. Peter loved Jesus, and died for Him, and for the faith he had in the Lord of lords, and Savior of the world.
Also, thanks for those excellent words about slavery Craver.
@ donsands
You state:
"These are not genuine Christians. People can call themselves what they want, but they don't adhere to the most essential truths of Christ, then they are imposters."
Tens of Millions of Christians would say and completely believe the same about you. You told me already you believe in the story of creation. Are you really saying the Arch Bishop of Canterbury and the Pope are imposters? The Church of England and the Vatican accept evolution over creation (although they believe it was still guided by God)and would say you are a outdated "Christian Imposter."
So even the Pope & and Arch Bishop have accepted that even from the 1st page the Bible is completely void of any factual account.
Funny that Christian Imposters to you are the people that:
"Christians who don't believe in the resurrection or the virgin birth."
BUT the you mention nothing about the Christians who let their daughter die in pain while praying to God, or the priests who abuse young boys being imposters.....
The more you talk about the myths of Christianity being FACT the more you show higher levels of indoctrination. Historians don't think it is. At least 97% of the members of Royal society (top science society in the UK) & at least 93% of the members of The National Academy of Sciences USA don't believe the Bible the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection or any of the doctrines of Christianity. If what you say was true about the Bible being FACT, then all these people would believe it. Their lives are built around evaluation evidence. World wide the studies show (even a recent gallop poll) show that the higher the rate of poverty & the less educated people are, the more religious they are.
It is no more the simple "slam dunk" you state, then a Muslim believing that the Arch Angel Gabriel came down to visit Mohammed in his cave.
Will you even understand this I wonder?
One of the biggest error a Christian makes is assuming the scripture and the bible are any kind of historical record. It has multiple authors & nothing was published until many decades after the crucifixion, and has completely been discredited by historical scholars.
Just a few cases in point:
Matthew and Luke cannot concur on the Virgin Birth or the supposed genetic link between David and Joseph.
They totally contradict each other on the "Flight into Egypt."
Matthew states Joseph was warned in a dream to make an IMMEDIATE escape
Luke states all 3 stayed in Bethlehem until Mary's purification which takes 40 days according to the law of Moses.
Luke's Gospel States Jesus was born in the year:
1 Emperor Caesar Augustus ordered a census for taxation purposes
2 Herod reigned in Judaea
3 Quirinius was governor of Syria
However
Herod died in 4BC
During Herod rule the governor of Syria was not Quirinius.
There is no mention of any Augustan census at this time by any Roman historian. The only thing around that time resembling a census took place in 6AD
The writers of Luke and Matthew declare that Mary conceived as a virgin, relying upon the Greek rendering of Isaiah 7:14. The Hebrew text of Isaiah uses the word 'alma, however, which simply means "young woman," without any implication of virginity. It is all but certain to historians that the dogma of the virgin birth was a product of a mistranslation from the Hebrew.
Further evidence against the doctrine of the virgin birth is that the other evangelists have not heard of it. Mark and John both appear uncomfortable with accusations of Jesus' illegitimacy, but NEVER MENTION HIS MIRACULOUS ORINGINS. Paul refers to Jesus as being "born of the seed of David according to the flesh" and "born of woman," without referring to Mary's virginity at all.
One could write pages on this, but you owe it to yourself to do some honest research.
There is also the fact that much of the rest of the Bible contains provably false stories.
The idea that the bible represents the infallible word of the One True God requires an encyclopaedic ignorance of history, mythology. The beliefs and rituals you hold so dear to Christianity have been stolen and rehashed time & time again from other religions years before the birth of Christ.
Whatever their imagined source, the doctrines of Christianity are no more tenable than those which, for eventual lack of followers, were cast upon the scrap heap of mythology millennia ago; for there is no more evidence to justify a belief in the literal existence of Heaven and Hell than there was to keep Zeus perched upon his mountain throne or Poseidon churning the seas.
You have too many subjects James.
I will focus in on the bottom line for who a Christian is, and what is our authority.
"It is no more the simple "slam dunk" you state, then a Muslim believing that the Arch Angel Gabriel came down to visit Mohammed in his cave."
It sure is a "slam dunk", because the Bible is proven to be, without a doubt, authentic.
The Koran is not.
Just as the book of Mormon, and so many other books of religion.
The bible is true and factual, backed up with:
"There are more than 24,000 partial and complete manuscript copies of the New Testament.
These manuscript copies are very ancient and they are available for inspection now.
There are also some 86,000 quotations from the early church fathers and several thousand Lectionaries (church-service books containing Scripture quotations used in the early centuries of Christianity).
Bottom line: the New Testament has an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting its reliability."
I stand firm on the Scriptures James.
And they clearly teach Christ rose from the dead. He was tortured and put to death on a cruel Cross, though He was innocent, and in fact sinless. He now reigns in heaven.
The bible clearly teaches we are sinners in this world, and we will struggle with sin as Christians, but our hearts and minds are His.
The fruit of our lives will be love for Christ Jesus, number one, and love for our neighbor, and even our enemies.
The genuine Christian will love the Word of God as well.
And though we may fail, our hearts will long to be righteous for Christ, and to love Jesus and others.
@donsands
"The bible is true and factual"
That is catastrophic delusion. No Christian I have met (and there has been a LOT), has ever claimed such utter historical FACT from the Bible. Nearly every debate gets down to faith but with you is different. You really believe it is without doubt all historical fact. You cant even see how someone could question this. However people who believe what you do, out of the worlds population would make up at most .00001% The fact is the more science advances, it completely chips away and destroys biblical 'Truth.' Most Christians spend there lives adapting there faith the each new discovery.
In times past YOU would be part of the group of Christians who fought to the END that the earth was flat of that the earth was the centre of the universe, until scientific discovery FORCED the churches position to change.
Even all the highest ranking people from YOUR faith from all around the world don't believe the bible is a completely factual account.
Please address the specific reasons for the contradiction from scripture. I mentioned......
Please explain why the top Scientist in the UK and the USA who lives are around evaluating evidence completely contradict what you say about evidence proving Christianity.
If there was such evidence for the Bible then historians would all be devoted Christians but this is not the case either..... Far from it.
The really sad part in all this is that you don't seem to have any understanding about religious indoctrination. If you (or I) had grown up to different parents in different religious environments we would both have completely different views.
There is no question if you were brought up by Hindu or Muslim parents & a corresponding religious environment you would be without question a Hindu or a Muslim making up religious 'Truth' in exactly the same way. You would have made up the evidence in you mind exactly like millions of Muslims that would die defending that what they believe to be the 'Truth' of the Koran. You might even murder others or sacrifice your life due to this indoctrination. Take the 9/11 hijackers. All evidence is that they were well educated people. THEY did not believe they were doing evil or terrorism. They believed, and believed SO much that they sacrificed their lives and murdered innocent people as they thought this was Gods will. You being completely and utterly convinced of the truth of Christianity and the Bible is no different.
You could join 100 people from other religion in a sealed room, and you would all claim complete and utter truth in your own God, all with your own reason and 'Truth' Claims. All of you with incompatible beliefs utterly convinced everyone else is wrong, and not 1 of you can supply a shred of evidence to convince anyone otherwise.
The fact you thing you think your beliefs are somehow different is truly tragic.
You are a victim of indoctrination which you now perpetuate.
Please forgive me for jumping into this debate, but I'd like to say a couple of things.
First, James, you said that 'no Christian I have met (and there has been a LOT), has ever claimed such utter historical FACT from the Bible'.
I haven't met any Christians (except online) who DON'T believe the Bible is historical fact. There's far too much evidence to prove it. Too many original manuscripts backing it up.
James, you said:
Even all the highest ranking people from YOUR faith from all around the world don't believe the bible is a completely factual account.
James, sadly, these people are apostate.
Second, a true and serious believer in the Bible would easily refute the fact that the earth is flat, using the Bible itself to do so. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6
Anyway, again I apologize for jumping in, but this is an interesting discussion.
Excuse me, but I used the wrong wording. I said:
would easily refute the fact that the earth is flat
I should have said:
would easily refute the idea that the earth is flat
I appreciate you jumping in Jen with those good words. Thanks.
James, the pastor of my church was raised in a home that didn't believe in God. And yet he heard the gospel, and he became a Christian. Shouldn't he still be an unbeliever?
Jesus Christ is a historical Man, who lived, and then died on a Cross. He also rose from the dead.
If you can find a way to refute this fact about Jesus of Nazareth, then do so.
"I claim to be an historian. My approach to Classics is historical. And I tell you that the evidence for the life, the death, and the resurrection of Christ is better authenticated than most of the facts of ancient history . . ."-
E. M. Blaiklock
Professor of Classics
Auckland University
I think we have come to a dead end, and so I'll leave you to your thinking, and I'll continue to trust in Jesus Christ my Lord, and love Him.
ps I believe everyone can read the Bible, and see for themselves, if what Peter wrote, what John wrote, what Moses wrote, and Luke, and Matthew, and all the other authors wrote is factual and the truth of the Creator of this creation we are part of.
Another very interesting article to read is this one, by Simon Greenleaf:
Greenleaf, one of the principle founders of the Harvard Law School, originally set out to disprove the biblical testimony concerning the resurrection of Jesus Christ. He was certain that a careful examination of the internal witness of the Gospels would dispel all the myths at the heart of Christianity. But this legal scholar came to the conclusion that the witnesses were reliable, and that the resurrection did in fact happen.
Nice link Jen. Thanks.
"That the books of the Old Testament, as we now have them, are genuine; that they existed in the time of our Savior, and were commonly received and referred to among the Jews, as the sacred books of their religion; and that the text of the Four Evangelists has been handed down to us in the state in which it was originally written, that is, without having been materially corrupted or falsified, either by heretics or Christians; are facts which we are entitled to assume as true, until the contrary is shown."
Hey Jen! Welcome to the conversation! :)
"I haven't met any Christians (except online) who DON'T believe the Bible is historical fact. There's far too much evidence to prove it. Too many original manuscripts backing it up."
Sorry, but this indicates to me an exceptionally limited world view (Prior to you going online) which is exactly how this kind of indoctrination thrives.
"James, sadly, these people are apostate."
The teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. You are, of course, free to interpret the Bible differently - though isn't it amazing that YOU have succeeded in discerning the true teachings of Christianity, while the most influential thinkers in the history of your faith failed?
About the Simon Greenleaf Harvard Lawyer fable. EVEN IF that was a true story, and you consider the thoughts of people in a position to evaluate evidence then it should bother you the 99.9% of scientists world wide DON'T believe in the Literal Truth of the Bible or Creationism.
You really owe it to yourself to research the story before you post Fundamental Christian propaganda at its worst.
Please Read:
http://www.drbilllong.com/LegalHistory/Greenleaf.html
http://www.drbilllong.com/LegalHistory/GreenleafII.html
Blindly perpetuating such non-sense exactly proves that you have a inability to fairly evaluate evidence that contracts your faith based 'Truth.'
@donsands
Origin of the Bible
http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/The_New_Testament
Absolute ream of Bible contradictions. Back to back contradictions in scripture:
http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm
Incidentally what do you score on this?
http://www.gotoquiz.com/do_you_have_biblical_morals
Be honest. If you really live by the teachings of scripture then this should be easy to get a high score.
Sorry, but this indicates to me an exceptionally limited world view (Prior to you going online) which is exactly how this kind of indoctrination thrives.
Please note that I specifically mentioned Christians. This does not mean that I haven't met many people who don't agree that the Bible is the infallible Word of God -- just that the actual Christians I have been associated with do believe that it is infallible and true. I haven't chosen to attend churches that are apostate or have intimate fellowship with apostate Christians. Please don't assume my worldview is so terribly limited or that I have been 'indoctrinated'. You are making assumptions that actually are rather insulting.
Wish I had more time, but I'm headed out. :)
"Blindly perpetuating such non-sense exactly proves that you have a inability to fairly evaluate evidence that contracts your faith based 'Truth.'"
That's not true. Who is to say this Bill Long is right? Perhaps you are doing what you accuse Jen of, James.
This discussion could become a stacking of scholars; a my stack is bigger than your stack.
So, I'm going to have to end it here James.
Jen was insulted, and that's not good.
James, there are countless things to study in the Bible, and I love to study the Scriptures.
There have been theologians, and scholars throughout the history of the Church to explain, what you call contradictions.
My blog isn't the place to discuss these deep things.
I'm a nobody really. There certainly are Christian blogs where you can debate these things, and they will take you to task.
Nothing, and no one has ever refuted the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It is the foundational truth of Christianity, and the Church. At the same time, there are many in the Church who are imposters.
But God knows those who are His.
And it is faith that the genuine Christian lives by. Faith in Jesus, that He was real, and His words are truth.
@ donsands
ok....
I post this last one since i just spent ages writing it :)
Then i leave it. Thanks very much for the time you have both spent replying to my posts.
@ Jen
I am sorry for offending you, that is not the point of my words. Only to strongly challenge your views. Calling the Pope and the Arch Bishop of Canterbury apostates is HIGHLY offensive as well by the way if you want to play the offended card. I'm only saying to you what you think about people of other faiths.
I KNOW you were talking about Christians only and my post was responding to that. Beside feeling offended have i said something that wasn't true?
If i told you a story about a Muslim or a Jew or a Mormon or an Aborigine ETC who completely and utterly believed the cannons of their faith. A person that was certain against common sense, evidence, reason, that their particular religious text and faith represents absolute TRUTH. A person whole sole reasoning circulates back to because my book is truth for every debate. A person who uses blatant junk propaganda stories to back up there TRUTH. A person who indicates that prior to the Internet they have not met people of the same faith with different views.
There are Millions of Muslims, Millions of Jews ETC who are certain beyond all doubt that YOU ARE WRONG AND INDOCTRINATED. Just as YOU are completely CERTAIN that they all are. They have to be. By your reasoning its is so overwhelmingly easy to see that your particular version of Christianity represents 'Truth' that other religious people who have read the same texts as you MUST have been indoctrinated to believe differently to you.
You need to have a long honest think to yourself about what your religion would be had you grown up to a different family, environment, religious country. If you grew up in Israel you would be without question a Jew..... In Iran without question a Muslim, with the SAME religious conviction you have for Christianity. The statistics for children sharing the same religion as their parents is overwhelming and without question. I can be almost certain that both you and donsands children will be Christians, but if you were Jewish then i could be almost certain they would be Jewish etc
Anyone can make this blatant assumption and nearly always be correct, especially when the parents have faith as strong as yours.
So WHAT IS THE WORD for this?
What in your view has happened to all the millions and millions misguided people from false religions who share the same religion as their parents/community?
Indoctrination?
All the best to you both, take care! :)
Thank you James. And please feel welcomed here at any time to discuss my posts.
You get the last word: "Indoctrination?"
Something for us to think about.
Perhaps I'll post some thoughts on it in the future.
Ok, I'm back after a long workday... I hope no one minds if I respond, even though James is supposed to have the last word. :)
Well, to start off, saying that your assumptions were 'rather insulting' was not to imply that I am hurt by them. Trust me, I've had my views thoroughly challenged too many times to count and been called all kinds names that I won't repeat here. It takes a whole lot more than what you said to even get my back up. Just so that you understand that I'm not off withering in a corner somewhere. :)
Second, I also claim Don's nobodyness. (I made that word up) I don't claim to have all the answers, James. But I know that passionate men of God before me have investigated the claims of the Bible, as have scientists and atheists and men like Greenleaf. And many men who originally set out to disprove the Bible have come to the conclusion that the Bible is true. (Incidentally, I don't know where you came up with the 99.9% of scientists... there is a large number of scientists who are believing in the idea of intelligent design these days because of their research) Personally, I have already spent a lot of time researching the things you mention, and I will spend my lifetime in the pursuit of understanding this Holy Book that God gave us.
You keep referring to different religions and their claims as though they can be compared to the Bible. The difference is that our beliefs are based on the person of Jesus Christ, and the Bible is His story. It's not about a 'what' (religion), it's about a 'Who' (Christ). I rest in that, because I KNOW Him personally. I know how He has changed my life, and the lives of people I know.
I pray that for you, James.
"The difference is that our beliefs are based on the person of Jesus Christ, and the Bible is His story." -Jen
It surely is personel isn't it. We love Jesus, although we have never seen Him. As the Apostle Peter says: "In this you greatly rejoice,.. that the genuineness of your faith, ...though it be tested, may be found to the praise ...of Jesus Christ at His revelation, whom having not seen you love."
And it's only because He first loved us that we love Him (1 John 4:19).
Thanks for sharing those words Jen.
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