Tuesday, February 15, 2011

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."-Paul

I have posted this fine teaching from Walter Martin, which clearly teaches us that God is One, and yet he has three Persons.
Enjoy and be edified in the truth; and sanctified as well.


Paul G. said...

Thanks Don for reconsidering the Trinity doctrine.

I have heard Walter Martin's teaching on the Trinity 28 years ago.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God is three persons, NOWHERE!
Walter Martin borrowed that satanic doctrine 'the Trinity' from the Catholic Jesuits.

If God would be a trinity of persons, then it would say it in the Old and New Testaments, but the Lord our God changes NOT, 'He' is the same yesterday today and forever, (note 'HE' and not THEM.)
All the OT Prophets testified about Jesus Christ alone and so do all the NT Saints of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ said, the Lord your God is ONE.
Walter Martin says, the Lord your God is THREE.
Whom do you believe?

As for me, I do not believe anyone who speaks contrary to Scripture not even an angel from heaven.

Walter Martin does not understand these things since it has not been given to him by the Lord. The Lord Jesus has made Himself known to us and we are taught by Him, just as the Scripture says (Isa.54:13 and John 6:45) (John 15:26 and John 14:26) etc.

donsands said...

"Walter Martin borrowed that satanic doctrine 'the Trinity' from the Catholic Jesuits."

No he didn't. Just as so many other wonderful men of God taught and preached that there is a Ftaher, and He is God. there is a Son, and He is God, and there is a Holy Spirit and He is God.

"Walter Martin does not understand these things since it has not been given to him by the Lord."

He is simply rationally stating what the Word of God says, which is the truth.
Anyone can read it for themselves and see.

The Word was with God. The Word became flesh.

The Word is Jesus,and He was WITH God.

So, for me the Lord has clearly given us His truth, and we need not find it difficult to see. It's difficult to understand, but it is crystal clear in the Word of God.

Philips Craig and Dean also say there is no Ftaher as a person, nor is there the Holy Spirit.

It's been quite eye opening Paul.
I apprciate your demeanor throughout our debate.

Be blessed by His truth, His Word is truth. Amen.

Paul G. said...

What I can't understand is that a highly intelligent man like Walter Martin defies the basis of all logic.

'ONE' can never be 'THREE'.
'HE' can never be 'THEM'.

Even if Walter tries to be wise before men, surely in his heart he would know that it is impossibility.
All Trinitarians without fail say after their explanation that nobody understands.

This is the GREATEST commandment from the Lord, 'that HE is ONE' (Mark 12:29)
There is no greater or more important one than that and any man who fails to believe and know that that 'ONE' is the Lord Jesus Christ will suffer its consequences.

Your statement of (John 1:1);
Please read it without your Trinitarian glasses, perhaps you might be able to see that the whole passage speaks only of Jesus Christ our Lord and God, and only then you will be able to see the glory and the Majesty of the invisible God Jesus Christ our Lord.
Trinitarians in their deception and confusion (of many persons of gods) can never see that.

Don, you ought NOT to believe in Philips Craig, Dean, Walter Martin or Paul G. but believe in the Lord Jesus alone, because He is the truth (John 14:6) and beside Him there is no other person who is also the truth. And any other person or spirit would be a liar and a deceiver.

May the Lord Jesus give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God!
Lots of love

Paul G. said...

An additional comment;
This video from Walter Martin on the Trinity is a disgrace and an insult to the living God and to everyone who loves the Lord our God Jesus Christ with all our heart, mind, soul and strength.

Walter Martin removes the glory of the Father which belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ and gives it or ascribes it to another person whom he also calls God.

Shame on him!

There are only two gods in this world;
Jesus Christ; (1 John 5:20) "He is the true God and eternal life". (Jude 8:25)
And Satan is the false god of this world, a liar and deceiver from the beginning.

RealityCheck said...

Hey Don,

I just wanted to say thanks for the Walter Martin video. It’s a nice, short, biblical way to prove the Trinity. The kind of thing a person could easily memorize and recall when needed.

For those that need more convincing I would recommend James White’s book, “The Forgotten Trinity” which John MacArthur commended with this endorsement:

The Trinity is a doctrine where error is especially deadly. James White superbly establishes the biblical basis of trinitarianism, examining its nuances and its place in church history. His lucid presentation will help layperson and pastor alike. Highly recommended.” – John MacArthur

I think John’s opening sentence should be taken very seriously.

Thanks again.

donsands said...

"Don, you ought NOT to believe in Philips Craig, Dean, Walter Martin or Paul G. but believe in the Lord Jesus alone, because He is the truth (John 14:6) and beside Him there is no other person who is also the truth. And any other person or spirit would be a liar and a deceiver."

Amen. I will believe waht Jesus said.

And He said this:

"“If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and WE [not I] will come to him and make OUR [not mine] home with him."
Not to mention Jesus' prayer to His Father in John 17:

“Father, the hour has come; glorify THE SON, so that the Son may glorify YOU. .....I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word."

Paul, if you can read that whole prayer, and say there is no Father the Son was praying to then I don't know what else to say.

Jesus was praying to His Father. He asked the Father to take this cup from Him.
Nevertheless, not MY will be done, but YOUR will."

Jesus prayed to the Father and sweat great drops of blood.

Ask the Lord to open your mind to John 17, and don't take you human logic to it. God doesn't want us to lean on our own understanding, but to Trust His Word; His Word is truth.

Bless you and may the Holy Scriptures rule. Amen.

donsands said...

Thanks for stopping by Reality, and for the excellent info and thoughts.

Lord bless.

Paul G. said...

Thanks Don;
First I'd like to say that I don't hate Trinitarian people, I only hate the Trinity doctrine with a passion just as Jesus does.

Trinitarians cannot understand the Scripture because they are polytheist (believing in many god-persons).
To say otherwise is self-deception, which is more dangerous than being deceived.

The Lord Jesus has given Satan the power to deceive even the elect if possible. Therefore we should take special attention to His Word (the Bible) and listen to what the Spirit says to the Churches.

You said;
"Ask the Lord to open your mind to John 17, and don’t take your human logic to it."

Yes; that's right, the Lord wants us to use His God-given-logic and to trust in Jesus not in mans illogical Trinitarian understanding.

Before I explain the Lords prayer (John 17), first you should truthfully ask yourself these questions.
If the Lord Jesus is the Lord God the Almighty the Creator of heaven and earth, then why did He pray?

Only sinners need to pray and Jesus never sinned, His is the sinless unblemished Lamb of God. So then; why did He pray?

If the Lord Jesus prayed to another person called God, then He could not be the Lord God the Almighty but a sinner just like you and me.

If the Lord Jesus is God and the other person is also God, then you are a polytheist believing in the gods (more than one) and not in the Scripture.
So the question remains; why did the Lord God the Almighty the creator of heaven and earth pray?

John 17:11 you have quoted;
Jesus said," Holy Father protect them by the power of YOUR NAME----the NAME you gave ME."

Question; what is the Fathers NAME??

It is plain and obvious that the Fathers Name is JESUS just like Jesus said, 'your Name the Name you gave me'.

But all those deceived Trinitarians say in their delusion that the Fathers Name is Jehovah, no wonder why their congregations are as dead as a doornail with a sign above the door 'ICHABOD'.

Jesus said, 'they diligently search the Scripture and think in them (the Scripture) they have eternal life, and it is these (the Scripture) who speak of me but they are unwilling to come to me so that they may have life' (John 5:39-40).
I say it loud and clear just like the Scripture.
There is only ONE God and that is the Father, He is the creator of all things, His Name is JESUS and beside Him there is no other person, identity or spirit who is also God.
Love you brother!

Paul G. said...

In heaven, one person of God saying to the other person of God; 'I really can do nothing on my own, I can only do what you are telling me to do, but not my will be done but yours, you really are greater than I (John10:29). Perhaps we both should send the third person the comforter to those on earth who are in trouble. Etc.etc.
Well Don, I hope you can smell that devil the Trinity, that stench has reached the nostrils of the Lord.

donsands said...

"John 17:11 you have quoted;
Jesus said," Holy Father protect them by the power of YOUR NAME----the NAME you gave ME."-Paul

That's not a very good interpretation of every verse in John 17.
How about explaining each verse for me.
Jesus prayed to somebody while He sweat blood. He also said

“My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as YOU will.”

Who is the You there?

It's the same Father throughout the whole Bible.

Paul G. said...

Yes Don; I will interpret all those verses you have asked, plus more in due time.

But first I would like you (in your heart) to turn away from those many gods of the Trinitarians and believe with all your heart only in the Lord Jesus Christ.
By that, I really mean BELIEVE!! Not just say that you believe.

First start in (John 16:25); Jesus said, "Though I have been speaking 'FIGURATIVELY' about the Father, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father".

Don, I think that you should believe that Jesus always was speaking figuratively about His Father.
If you don't believe that, then you will never understand anything of the Scriptures just like all those deceived Trinitarians.

There would be no point to quote more passages from the Bible because you wouldn't believe anything anyway apart from those false teachers the Trinitarians.

If you would believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty the Creator of heaven and earth, then by necessity you would certainly know and understand that the Lord Jesus Christ does NOT HAVE A FATHER! But rather that He 'IS' the Father just as he said in (John 14:7-10).
Since when does the Lord God Almighty have a Father? Or even need a Father?

Likewise if you would believe the above, then you would know and understand that the Lord our God did NOT HAVE A SON, but rather that He 'IS' the Son.
Since when does the Lord our God need a Son? Can He not do the Job Himself?
If you think so; may as well say that He has a Mother like the Catholics say, (The Holy Mother of God).
If you don't believe that the Lord spoke figuratively, how then will you believe when He speaks plainly?
If deception has taken root in our hearts, we ought to deal with it or it will take us to the highroad of destruction.

donsands said...

Paul you're not dealing with John 17 verse by verse like I asked you.

Until you do that, your words are empty.

And also Jesus' prayer to His Father, "Remove this cup. But, not MY will, YOUR will be done."

This is an absurd statement unless Jesus is praying to His Father.

Explain this rationally first, and then we will continue.